Hi, everyone. We're glad you're here. This is the Three Lesbians and a Pen podcast. Get ready to have your world rocked. As we dive into the wild and sometimes wacky world of self-publishing. We are three fabulous bestselling authors. I'm your host, Kimberly Todd with my best friends.

K. C. Luck

and Jamey Moody. 

Join us as we discuss the joys of writing, challenges of self-publishing, and anything else that tickles our fancy. 

Hey there, and welcome to episode 48 of the Three Lesbians and a Pen podcast. I'm Kimberly Todd, and I'm here with my fabulous friends, KC Luck and Jamey Moody. Today we're talking about Book Pirating, but before we start, how was your week, Jamey?

Well, let's see. First off, I want to say thank you to my pod pals because we are recording this on a Friday instead of our usual Monday. ' cause I'm going to the state fair of Texas on Monday with my nieces, so that'll be fun!

That'll be fun.

Yeah, it will be. And y'all, changed our recording date so I could do that and I really appreciate it. Have y'all ever been to a state fair?

Oh yeah. I've been to the Oregon State Fair a number of times.

I actually did advertising for the Kentucky State Fair for a year and a half, and it's very exciting.

It's fun. Yeah, we'll have a good time. So I haven't been in several years, so let's see. So I'm looking forward to that part.

Do you ride the rides?

I used to, but I don't know that I will now. I'm not a really good ride rider. The spinny rides...

Yeah, bleck. 

Exactly. I don't have that really great stomach. We might try some things to see if we can win some stuff, you know, just give your money to those people instead of trying to win anything. 

Have you ever had a fried Snickers? I had that when I was in Kentucky.

No, but I've gotta find out what they've got this year. A couple of years ago they had fried butter.

Ohh...

Wow. I would love that. 

That don't even sound good. Does it?

It does to me.

I'll report back the next time we record and tell you what fried things we had, but yeah, they've got all kinds of great food and I don't know, it's just a fun time. I like to look at all the new cars and, the different exhibitions and they'll probably have some musical people playing too. It's a big deal because, well, Texas is big, so. Yeah, you might have heard of Big Tex. There's a big, huge guy at the gate that says, "Howdy Folks." Yeah, this Big Tex. Welcome to yada, yada, yada. So. But that's a thing around here. Howdy folks. 

There's a whole story behind that guy. I saw that on some antiques show.

Yeah. A few years ago his clothes burned ' cause they lay him down and get him all. I don't really remember what happened. Yeah. But he, so he is got new clothes. So Big Tex has new clothes.

See what you're missing out on KC.

Uh.

GTS that. Google that shit. That's a GTS Folks. Google. Google. Big Tex. Anyway. Let's see what else has been happening around here. That's enough. Let's go on. Lemme throw it back to you.

Okay, so the big thing for me was sending my book Darkness Rising to the editor because it's coming out soon. I should have it back actually this weekend and I can get it all ready to go. It's already loaded for pre-order up on Amazon so people can go get Darkness Rising.

I can't remember when this actually airs 'cause I never remember, but it's gotta be close to when it comes out.

It is gonna air on October 17th.

So it airs two days after my book is out. So go get it. 

So aren't you releasing it on a kind of big day your life? 

Mm-hmm.

Uh, yeah, my 57th birthday.

what I thought.

Woo woo.

Yeah.

Little birthday present to myself. So yeah, that's happening. 

Have you done that before? Released a book on your birthday?

I don't think so.

I don't think I have either, but you know, I've kind of got the opportunity too. Mine's in November and I've got a book ready.

You should do it. 

Yeah. Tell us listeners, should I release a book on my birthday?

Yeah, that's a good idea. 

Also, I am actually reading for the first time since I actually published it. My book, Everybody Needs a Hero and it's because I'm gonna do a Christmas, spinoff for readers of that book. And so I'm reading it and last night at 11:30 at night, I just finally went to bed 'cause man, this is an exciting book. What hell is happening next? Like, who wrote this shit? This is good.

Doesn't that make you feel good? I love that. 

I mean, there's some places I cringe. I was just like, oh boy, that's poorly worded. But overall, the plot is really good. So I like the characters. I can't wait to write this next book. This is gonna be fun.

That's what I was gonna say. You're like, did I write this? I am good, man.

And last but not least tomorrow, which will be October 4th because we're recording this on the third. I'll be six months retired.

Yay.

Six months as an authorpreneur. That's right. And it's actually been great. I have loved every minute. It is a choice I would make again and again, and I highly recommend it if you can pull it off.

Mm-hmm. 

Well, we talk about writer routines and I've added this new thing and I can't tell you how much fun it is. I can't listen to music when I'm writing, but I do this thing now where I go onto YouTube and I put on Pharrell's "Happy" song.

Well, I love that song. 

And I watch the video and it is so fun. He is so talented and it's just a great way to start writing in the morning. So that's my new writer thing. 

That used to, be my alarm song.

Yeah. And then today I about killed myself, so I hate when I see like a mess. Like if I see a spoon and a cup, I'll put it away. So I got outta the shower and then I went back in later on and I noticed there was some mold growing around the edge of the shower.

I was like, ah, that's disgusting. Anyways, I go in there and I bought this shit long ago called ZEP. It's like a really strong cleanser that you get from the hardware store. It's not like bleach from the supermarket. So I sprayed that stuff all in there and I went back later. I saw the black stuff, like around the edge, not a ton, but enough to annoy me. I said, fuck that, I'm gonna put some, bleach. 

Oh god. 

I sprayed bleach, on top of it and it made this fume thing that I was like coughing and hacking. I almost passed out. I was like, that shit's dying now for sure. 'cause I'm dead.

You could kill yourself doing that shit, man.

I came flying outta the bathroom, and my wife is home today, but I was like, she didn't even come to see if I died, but she has her headphones on in the other room, so she didn't hear me dying, so I could been dead on the floor from that inhalation and no one would've known.

Oh, that would've sucked.

I know. And then the other thing, Jamey brought up before we, recorded she was talking about her lawnmower and it just made me think of this thing. My mom, bless her, she is really intelligent and smart. She used to be a librarian and she reads and all this stuff. So I have to preface that because she decided that she could fix her own lawnmower. So she ordered the blade and the nut and she calls me and she, was like, oh my God, honey. I said, where were you? I called you. And she said, oh, I was out with the damn lawnmower. And I said, well, what happened? She said, oh, I was replacing the blade. I said, oh, okay. I said, you can do that. She said, yeah, it's no big deal. I got the parts, blah, blah, blah. She said, the only thing is every time I put the blade on, I start the lawnmower and the blade goes flying across the lawn. I was like, what mom? Your ankles, feet, you can't run. You know? She's not like spry chicken anymore, and she's like, I know. So I stand on the deck. I lean over it, and I start the thing and I run.

Oh my God. That's awesome.

I was like, oh my God. I was like, please do not do that anymore. She's like, no, no, no. I, I'm sure. She's like, I've watched several YouTube videos and I know I can figure it out. She's like, this was the third time. I'll try one more time. I was like, please wait...Stand on the deck and lean over to turn it on.

That sounds like something you're supposed to fix as her lesbian daughter.

I know I told her, wait till I get home. She does not listen. She's stubborn and she will fix things on her own. Anyways, I thought that was super funny.

Oh, nice. 

And this one is for, my author friend Jamey Moody. I didn't know if you know that there is a Hallmark movie coming out on December 21st called The Christmas Baby with Kat Barrell, you know, from Wynonna Earp. Way Haught. 

Yeah, yeah. No, I did not know that. Is it gay? 

Yeah. Two women find an abandoned baby and then they adopt it.

Oh.

Where did you see that?

I don't know. I get tons of stuff. 

Twelve it's Twenty-One, Hallmark. OK. 

Yeah, The Christmas Baby. 

Surely, we have written something like that.

I don't know. 

 Okay, so did we get any texts this week?

We did get one text from CeeJay. CeeJay says they don't download anything from a pirated site, which we appreciate. They point out that there's a lot of audiobooks out there as well as eBooks that are available to be pirated, unfortunately. But they see the validation behind thinking that it could be promotion because they point out that if you were to find a book on a plane and you read the book for free and then you loved it so much that you wanted to go read the rest by the author, assuming, of course not all our books are available for free.

So that way it would be a bit of marketing. So I can follow that line of thinking. But they said they would never, ever do that pirate No. 

Mm-hmm. We didn't get any emails this week.

For Insta, we got one Insta from a new follower named Michelle. And this is exciting. She binged a bunch of our episodes, and she reads tons of Sapphic books and she's actually a reader and said, I have zero interest in writing a book, but she absolutely loves coming back every week to listen to us because of the banter between us.

Welcome. Yeah. Welcome, Michelle. We're glad you're here.

We should probably point out one more thing. The reason why we probably don't have quite so many emails and texts this time is because this is being recorded the same day that the podcast has come out. 

So... 

True. 

a lot of people will probably write in. Yeah. We'll pick him up next time.

Please keep writing in. We love your comments so.

Yep.

Okay, so this week we're talking about Book Pirating. KC, you wanna start us off?

Sure. So let's talk about what book pirating is. So, in a nutshell, it's reading a book that you haven't actually paid for. Okay. It's stealing and yeah, it is. And if you go out and get a PDF off of Reddit or Wattpad and you know that it is something that is actually for sale wider on Amazon and you're reading it without having paid for it, that is pirating.

Yeah.

Yeah, and what gets me a little bit is how they get 'em in the first place. When I first heard about it, people were kind of, going crazy thinking it was people off their ARC teams. But I am pretty sure none of my ARC team members do anything like that. So is there a way to get them off of Amazon on the Kindle?

Oh yeah.

Get the books off?

Is that how they do it?

Oh yeah, there's software you can buy. Oh, yeah.

Oh, okay. So someone, whoever's running the site gets this software and, or no, I guess anybody could get the software. Right?

Yeah. Sure.

And then they give it to these book pirates.

Or what if it's on Kindle Unlimited and you get it from there, right? It could be anybody really. 

Yeah. There are ways to do it.

And how do they make money off of us?

They don't necessarily. 

It's some way? Yeah. It's just so...

Most of these sites though, they don't actually have your book. They scrape the top 100 blurbs, and then they make it look like they have your actual book. But what they're really trying to do is get you to sign up for a subscription to get your credit card information or get you to click on something so that you download a virus. So it's really naughty. You shouldn't go to these sites 'cause there's a lot of things that could happen.

Right. Right. They do. They are, trying to rip you off and you're probably not gonna get the book that you think you're gonna be getting.

Yeah. 'cause I thought the books also weren't, as clean and, you know, as what we actually published.

They're not because they're ripped off.

They have errors because of the way they download 'em or something, or scrape 'em, you know, for lack of whatever.

Exactly. That's the problem. That's why they look like crap.

In other words, they are free, cheap books, that you shouldn't be reading. Why not just get the real deal?

Mm-hmm.

Right? 

Yeah, I mean, the books aren't really that expensive. I don't think, an ebook is pretty cheap. I know if you read a lot that it probably is, but then you would get Kindle Unlimited. That's what I have, and it makes it a lot easier. Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

That's not even talking about the integrity of it. That's just, yeah. You know? I mean, why would you wanna read a shitty book when you could read a good book.

Mm-hmm. And it really impacts us as authors. I mean, its lost sales, but it's also really frustrating. It's really demoralizing to go out to these sites and see something you worked so hard on, especially you, Kimberly, 'cause you work a long time on things to see it out there.

Yeah. And I have to say, I know my book, my first book was pirated.

Oh, yeah. All of mine have, I think.

And I mean, it is just devastating. Yeah, exactly. KC, what you were saying. I spend like a year to write a book and then it just poof is out there. It's just very discouraging. But you gotta keep writing because that's what we enjoy doing.

Oh yeah. And don't, some authors view it as, how is it that you say it, KC, any publicity is good publicity? Or...

Right. Yeah. 

Any promotion is a good promotion. Mm-hmm. 

But I don't know. I don't know.

I know all of us do it, but some people don't. And what's good is you should put in the front of your book and the back of your book, your other books that you have in a series, a little bit about them and links to your website or to Amazon. Because if a book is pirated and the person likes the book, then the pirated version will have the links to your other books in there that they can actually go and buy them from. So you kind of do your own promotion within the book, I guess. 

Yeah.

So maybe instead of getting the next one off the pirated site, they'll go get the real deal.

Yeah, ' might just click it and it might not be available on the pirated site, so.

Right. Yeah. Yeah. But I am not a person who runs around and tries to get 'em taken down. I will admit that when I hear about it, if I go look at the site, I used to in the beginning, whenever I heard about, in the beginning, I would go look and oh my God, my books were there and I'd just lose my shit for a while.

But now I don't even really go bother to look because I know it's up there and there's really not a lot I can do about it. I can send 'em an email or you know, one of those take down notices. And they will maybe take it down, but then you turn around and it's on another fucking site.

Whack-a-Mole.

Yeah, I was gonna say, yeah, that's the way I was at the beginning. I was like, holy shit, can't believe this. But then it's just so much work to try to get 'em taken down. That you could be spending writing another book.

So it's just, demoralizing, like you said, and then it's just a pain in the ass. And then what do you do?

And from what I've read, it sounds like if you're a really well-known author that you're selling millions of copies of books, then it's worth getting the take down notice. I mean, everyone has their own opinions, so of course I'm not saying that you shouldn't do it. We're just saying that for people that have a lot of sales, that they will invest in all the forms and the lawyers and all that they need to do to get the book taken down and from every place as much as they can. But like KC said, they always pop up again anyways, but you never know.

Mm-hmm. Yeah. A lot of them, aren't real anyway. Your book is listed, but it's not really on there. It's just a rip off. They want your email. So yeah. What readers can do to help though, is first of all, don't do it. But I know that people listening to this podcast especially are not that kind of person.

But also, it's okay to notify the authors. Now, I just said that I don't necessarily do anything with that notification and it feels like shit when I find out. But you can still tell me.

And you can go drink a gin or whatever your favorite thing is. 

Just take a little shot. Fuck it. 

Yeah, get little tipsy and take a nap. Forget it ever happened.

You can also post it on Facebook somewhere so other people are aware. So those authors who do want to make sure their stuff is taken down and do go through all the steps with the lawyers and stuff will know about it. So definitely post about it in the groups and include a link to get to there.

And then another thing I've been reading, and I'm sure everyone else has too, is the Anthropic case. Anthropic, the AI company, they basically pirated from two lists, 7 million books, and on September 25th, a judge finally agreed to a settlement of 1.5 billion, which is amazing and nice to hear.

And you can go check out anthropic copyright settlement.com and put in your ISBN number to see if your book is one of the books that they are gonna have to pay out to. And basically, of the 7 million, only 500,000, books actually qualify and you have to have had your book, in there before August 10th, 2022. And it had to be copyrighted through the US copyright office.

Exactly. 

Right. Kindlepreneur actually put out an article today about that case, and also about copywriting your book. They, had a little article about it that said there are three tiers for the single application, it's $45, which is one work by single author, same claimant, not made for hire, and then the next tier is $65, and that's called a standard application.

And it's for all other electronic filings. And then they have $125 level for paper filings. I've got to say I don't copyright my books, but this makes me think I should. 

And, you can look into it. You both copyright your books, right? So y'all know the process and everything, and, KC, didn't you check to see if your book was involved in the AI deal? Yeah.

And it is not.

I checked too, mine isn't either.

Yeah.

So I guess I didn't, you know, well, I might've got ripped off because there's still a few more billions that are on the list. That aren't on the list. So it could have got sucked in there. Who knows?

I joined the, Author's Guild and they have a forum, I really like it. And what's interesting a lot of people originally had their books on the list and now that this settlement form thing has come out, they go to look at it and their book isn't there. Or they'll say, I had 10 books in there on the list originally, and now only two show up on the settlement.com site.

Huh.

Let me say this about copyright though. As soon as you write original words then that is yours and it's copyrighted. But to prove that it's copyrighted, that's why you might want to go through the process of actually doing it.

I mean, I can prove my books are copyrighted because I have the symbol and I can say when they were published because I have the publication date, but that won't necessarily hold up in a court of law if something comes up and someone stolen my story the way y'all's will because y'all went through the copyright office.

Right. So if someone goes out and makes a movie outta Darkness Falls, and then I cry a long time ' cause they stole my story, but then I would get a lawyer because I have a copyright document that says on this date, this is my story, this is my book, and you now owe me a gazillion fucking dollars.

Do y'all do every one of your books or just some of them. 

No. But, I'm a little behind. I'm actually, I'm like five books behind, so it's gonna be a big chunk of change. Ugh.

Yeah, I'm still contemplating it.

The thing that's interesting is that, on copyright.gov for these type of copyright infringements, they can pay anywhere from $3000 to $150,000 is my understanding per book. So it's interesting that this big giant case, they got the minimal right, $3000 per book, which I understand. But what sucks about that is I feel like going forward, any AI company which has billions of dollars, might just do it and say, who cares? It's only gonna cost us $3000 a book. So meanwhile, the authors get three grand, whatever, if they file everything, but they're getting the use of all, you know what I mean? I'm just wondering if the case is setting a precedent or not. I don't know. Maybe I think about it too much.

Yeah. Oh yeah, there's, there's books being pirated every second of the day and they're just assuming they're not gonna get caught. And if they do get caught, like you said, you know, I hate to say it, but it's kinda like tobacco back in the day, you know, they were just like, they were playing the game that if they got sued, they made enough money, they could cover it and we're not gonna take it down.

Mm-hmm.

Jamey, were you the one telling me that there is now an AI actress.

Yes. Her name was something with a T. Tilly, maybe something like that. Yeah, they have, talent agencies that are swarming around her to represent her because, I mean, how easy is that? You don't have to pay a person, I guess they integrate her somehow into the film.

Mm-hmm. Yeah. Oh, you know, I'm gonna say this and I don't wanna upset anybody. AI is here to stay. We just need to be able to police it somehow, so they're not stealing for one, but there's just got to be some way to make it, is ethical the right word? Or...

Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.

I don't know.

Well for books, they're trying to figure out a way where, authors can opt in and get some funds like saying, yes, you can use my book, but you need to pay me a certain amount. 

Yes, I did look into that. You mentioned that in an earlier podcast or as an aside, and I did look into it. 'cause I'm like, I wonder how much they're willing to pay. 

Did you find out? 

I did, I found out they pay $150 a book, but it's written in the contract that basically you're giving them the rights to do whatever they want with it. And that flies in the face of our Kindle Select contract with Amazon. So I wrote to them and I said, Hey, how does this fly under this contract? And I sent 'em the link to the terms and conditions for Kindle Select and they wrote back, and basically they agreed that it would be something they couldn't honor. They would not be able to honor Kindle Select terms and conditions, and that if I wanna do it after that expired, then contact them again. And I was just like, nanner nanner. Everybody that's doing this is gonna get screwed if Amazon finds out you did it.

Well, here's a thought. What if Amazon makes a list of AI books and they cost this amount, and then these are real authors and they cost this amount. So maybe you have two different, Kindle Unlimited subscriptions, you know, this is the real deal and for half of that you can do this. Because they certainly shouldn't be able to charge the same. You think that'll be intermixed for a long, long time.

Oh yeah, because Amazon is very AI friendly. They're very invested in AI. They have their own AI system, Claude. So, you know, they're not gonna...

And so they don't care that we care, that we don't like AI.

They don't care about a lot of things.

Yeah, that's true. That's true.

They care about money. 

Yeah, exactly. That's all they care about anyway.

It's interesting how, I've seen some publishers and some, I don't know what you wanna call them, people that teach classes that would benefit authors. It seems like a lot of them are pushing AI. They're not worried about it. They're saying, go ahead, make your, outline through AI. Don't have an idea. Ask AI.

Yep.

You know, so that's kind of scary that people that are teaching are saying...

Yep. Big publishers are doing that. 

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. 

Yeah. Big publishers.

And AI is gonna get better and better because right now the complaint is there's no emotion in the writing, but they keep feeding these pirated books into it. There's gonna be emotion in the writing. 

Oh, for sure.

And what's gonna happen once they discover that they shouldn't be using em dash, then we'll never know what...

That's, that is not, that is not fair because I use em dashes.

Exactly.

That's a joke. I'm kidding. 

I just reread Everybody Needs a Hero 'and it's got tons of em dashs in it!

Did you AI that? 

I didn't. AI didn't exist when this came out. Whatcha talking about. It was playing chess. 

I love an em dash. I don't give a shit. Just leave your em dashes, people. Don't be afraid. 

Me too. Me too. I like an em dash.

I think they're fun. 

Scared to use them now.

And so does my editor. My editor likes em dashes.

Yeah. My editor helped me with them. I was oh. 

Yeah. Mine too. 

I was like, I didn't know about that. Okay. When I first started writing. 

And loves the semi and she loves the semicolon too. You don't see a lot of semicolons anymore.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah, just it's just crazy. It's just crazy. 

I was listening to a podcast the other day and they were talking about when some authors started self-publishing, you know, and it really got going, I think probably 2012 or something like that. And the changes that, have occurred since they started. This is just another one of those blips in the roads that we're gonna have to learn to navigate. So you just need to hang in there and we'll find a way to navigate it.

Mm-hmm. Exactly. When self-publishing first came out, it was a huge to do. 

Mm-hmm. 

That's putting it nicely. And it took years for it to be something that was accepted by the industry.

Oh, yeah. To be respected as a self-published author. 

Exactly. I mean, it took years, like seven, eight years. 

And now, we make more money. 

And now we are not only making... yeah, we make more money and we're winning awards. We have to assume as much as we hate it, that AI is also gonna follow a similar curve.

Mm-hmm. Something we have to, you know, deal with or whatever. But I'm going to say this, it all comes down to I love writing these stories and as long as I have a story and some characters in me, I'm gonna keep doing it. So.

Yep.

And I hope I make enough money to publish it, but I'm gonna keep doing it because it gives me joy and I know it gives some of my readers joy because they've told me.

Yeah. And then if you ever get discouraged, 'cause you find your book pirated or something happens, there's always gin or whatever you choose. 

Or a cold beer. 

That's my favorite, gin.

Scotch.

There you go.

or Diet Coke.

Yep.

For our non, yeah. 

That's right. That's right. 

Diet Coke. 

Our other friends. 

Hey, before we sign off, I wanted to give a shout out to Minishca. She wrote me an email a couple of weeks ago, and I thought I had replied to her, but I didn't. So I'm gonna do it right here on the podcast. Her question to me was, she knew that I had been sick for a while there and that I had not been writing. I probably didn't write for over a week, and as y'all know, I write something just about every day. So she asked me, after being away from it for that long, how did I get back going again?

And really, for me, my characters talk to me a lot during the day, often. So even though I didn't feel well, those characters were talking to me and saying, hey, don't forget about us. And so when I finally felt good enough to just sit down in front of my computer, I read the chapter before it, and sat down and just went to town. And after, you know, you might struggle with a sentence or two, but then it all started coming back because I knew where I was going next because I've been thinking about it for over a week, 'cause I didn't feel well. So that's what I did to start back. 

So next week we are going to be talking about author websites. KC do we have a question of the week?

 I do. Why would you go to an author's website and what are you looking for when you get there? Because I wanna know it, so I can put it on my website.

Okay. Well, that's it for this week. Thanks so much for listening.

Thank you for listening. We really appreciate it. We really do.

And as always, hootie hoo. 

Thanks for listening. If you'd like to reach out to us, you can contact us by email at contact@threelesbiansandapen.com with the number three spelled out or on Instagram, Facebook and X at three lesbians and a pen using the number three. And finally on our website at threelesbiansandapen.com, we look forward to hearing from you, see you next week.