Hi, everyone. We're glad you're here. This is the Three Lesbians and a Pen podcast. Get ready to have your world rocked. As we dive into the wild and sometimes wacky world of self-publishing. We are three fabulous bestselling authors. I'm your host, Kimberly Todd with my best friends.

K. C. Luck

and Jamey Moody. 

Join us as we discuss the joys of writing, challenges of self-publishing, and anything else that tickles our fancy. Hey there, and welcome to episode 45 of the Three Lesbians and a Pen podcast. I'm Kimberly Todd, and I'm here with my fabulous friends, KC Luck and Jamey Moody. Today we're talking about sex. Welcome to Let's Talk About Sex Episode Two.

Woo hoo! Come on! We, gotta say something people.

Before we start, how was your week, KC?

My week was magical. I usually say good, but this was actually magical. I went to a rooted and radiant women's retreat in the woods. We all camped. I spent about, hmm, three nights, four days, I guess it turned out to be with 25 women who were trying to find their higher self. So that was actually great. We talked a lot about letting go of self-doubt and finding out self-love, so it was great. we sang around the campfire and shared a lot of stories and it just recharged my batteries in a really good way. So I had a great time. Yes, it was fabulous.

So you found your higher self.

I am still looking, but I know it's there somewhere.

So.

Oh, see, you've got all this confidence. I figured you already knew her and had it, and you were probably able to help others, you know.

Sounds very cathartic. 

They called me The Storyteller, so there you go.

Oh, perfect. Did that make you feel good?

Yeah. 

I know I had a, email from a reader, and she told me that several of my earlier books were her comfort reads. I told her, I said, you've given me the ultimate compliment. I mean, how nice is that. Anyway, but good for you. You are a storyteller.

Yep. 

Thanks.

That's awesome. 

Okay, so you know, Jamey always talks about something breaking down, and so this morning. I decided to eat a pretzel stick and I broke my tooth in half and now I have to go to the dentist tomorrow for a major, major freaking thing.

On a pretzel? 

Yes, my back molar cracked right in half and part of it disappeared. I don't know where went...

Did it hurt? 

That's scary part.

It'll come out later.

Yeah.

Yeah, exactly what? I dunno. So of course, I called this morning frantic and they're like, well squeeze you in tomorrow. So that's exciting. No, it didn't hurt? It just sounded like breaking glass. And I was like, oh, not good.

But here's something bizarre. You know how we talk about AI? This is something that I thought was kind of freakish. So, I had to go, to the walk-in clinic this weekend and it was one near our house that we haven't been to before and they have you fill out all the traditional paperwork and you do all this stuff, you know, you can do it online now.

And I finally got down to the HIPAA stuff and I was reading it 'cause you sign all these things at the end and it had a section for AI and it said, your medical diagnosis, and what you tell us may be interpreted by AI, and two or three scenarios may be presented to the doctor and then the doctor can decide based on what AI tells it, if they wanna use it, it's their choice of how to diagnose you. So you have to agree to allow AI to know, I don't know if it, it probably knows all your medical information. I don't know. Or if it's just for that one case or whatever. But you sign that now and I thought that was crazy. 

Yeah. That's kind of scary.

Yeah, that's what I was gonna say. That's a little scary.

I mean, don't quote me on all the details and legalese people. Everywhere else is using AI so I guess doctors will be using it too.

Yeah, we talked about AI this weekend too, actually, and people were talking about how opposed to it they were. And then one of the leaders was actually saying that every morning, they talk to AI about, self-love, self-worth, higher selves, try and train it so that it has a conscience and isn't just this data gathering, machine. So yeah, there's different approaches to it. It's really an interesting subject.

And I don't know if you guys have heard of Deepak Chopra, I'm sure you have. So he has, Deepak Chopra.ai and you can go look it up and I think you can do like one or two sessions a day before you have to wait if you don't wanna pay for it. But he made his own AI that will only accept and interpret, you know, kindness.

So you can say, “Oh, I'm having a bad day today,” or something like that. And it will give you feedback almost like you're talking to a therapist, plus either a meditation or some kind of nice saying to uplift your spirits.

Wow. All right. I'm going there.

Yeah, it's pretty cool. Deepak Chopra dot ai.

Isn't that interesting? 

Okay. So Jamey is excited because listeners, you won't get this for two weeks, but I released a book today. 

Woo hoo! 

Yeah. Thank you! I'm trying a new release strategy on this one. So we'll let it go for a little bit and if it works, I'll let all of our author listeners know.

Um, maybe, uh, tweak it for theirs or whatever, because I'm trying something just a little bit different. But I'm just really excited about it because all of the early reviews I have on this book are really good. It was my try at an ice queen, but as we know, that's not my lane. So mine is an ice cream. She's like ice cream. What did you say? KC? Uh, sitting in the sun, so she melts rather quickly. 

She melts rather quickly.

But there's a lot to the book on why she is the way she is, and it just, really touched a lot of people's hearts so far. Evidently, several people said it's their favorite book in this series I'm really excited so far. It's doing well on Amazon in the ranks, which that's more important to authors than it is to readers, but I do think it helps our books get in front of more readers. So that's important to us for that reason. But, yeah, I'm excited. Cool. So this week, we usually read our emails and our texts, but we sent out, a request through the podcast and all of us also sent out, questions about our topic today, sex and the pepper level, and how spicy things are. So I thought we could just jump right into the episode and include those emails or texts that we did receive since the whole episode is about that.

Absolutely.

Yes, this was great. I will say that Kimberly did this first and came up with it. So, KC and I decided to do the same to our newsletter subscribers. And let me tell you, I think I got the biggest response I've ever gotten, from a question that I have shot out there to, my peeps. My reader family.

Yeah. 

You know why? People are having sex.

Or wanting to have sex, one or the other.

It was just fun.

Yeah. Well, I have received actually a text from Jules, our good friend Jules, and it was very short and sweet. She listened to the episode and she literally says, “you are wrong.”

I love Jules. Thank you, Jules. I love you.

Emotional sex can equal five peppers. And then she says, thank you for attending my TED talk.

I know. If you'll remember listeners two weeks ago when we were talking, this whole episode came up kind of out of the blue because, we had been talking about how our sex episode was our most popular episode, and so then the pepper level just came out of the blue.

But I made the comment that, emotional sex is a five and KC did a lot of type stuff, so Jules has my back and then you will find out shortly that several of my readers have my back as well. Emotional sex can be... five peppers. 

Mm-hmm.

We have a lot of people that have written in, like we said, and there's a different, perception of what, some people have actually put in zero peppers and then all the way up to the five peppers, and they vary.

Mm-hmm. 

Can I say up top though? One thing that I was kind of wondering is, does it make it five peppers by the number of sex scenes in the book, or does it matter how hot the sex scenes that are in the book are. So, I mean, we looked at two things and I had people, comment on that a little bit. You know, so does it matter the number of sex scenes or the quality of the sex and you can have a one pepper that's quality, so I don't really wanna use that word, but the, hotness of the sex scene. How's that spicy? Do we wanna use spicy, I guess.

Hotness.

Hotness, you know what I mean? Listeners?

Yeah, there was actually some people wrote in and said they don't like spice in their books. I thought that was interesting that they're a subscriber to my newsletter, but don't like sex in their books. Hmm. Okay. Well, there's a couple you can read, but the rest are gonna have sex scenes.

But let me add that, I had an email just yesterday, that told me, she said that, she didn't mind the number of sex scenes or the spicy level necessarily because she skipped over or would skim that part of the book because she's been having sex for 60 years and she knows what she's doing. That had to be the best email, so these people know what they're doing.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm. So, CeeJay sent a text as well. I don't know what CeeJay sent you, Jamey, or even on Instagram, but they said, they think the spice level depends on the couple as well. So the two people involved, is how I take that. And that if you have someone of the Jamey Moody persuasion where she tends to be a lot sweeter than, you know, maybe a little less spice, whereas take a sexy vampire, Kimberly, and the spice level, or anticipation, is a slightly different. But then she also mentioned Robin Alexander, who I have read Robin Alexander. I don't know if you have, but her books are hilarious and they usually fall under this funny spice level, which is completely different. And I agree there are some sex scenes in those books that are funny as well as hot.

Mm-hmm. Those are fun. But I know my books are considered sweet and that's great, but spice-wise. Some of them are... I think that's how this all started because I thought my books were around a four and, uh, and see, see? Can y'all hear that KC's already laughing, giggling,

Three teddy bears, four, four spice, and I don't know.

But my listeners, patted me on the back and said they're between three and four. It just depends and I understand that. Talking about the characters though, if you think about it, especially if it's the first time for those two characters or if you have a toaster oven type situation where this is the first time the character has ever had sex with a woman.

So the spice level could definitely, increase, depending on where the two, main characters are in their lives, I guess. So that does have something to do with it. I get you, CeeJay, I get that. 

Mm-hmm. 

But maybe we need to throw the question out there then, can sweet romances have four and five pepper scenes?

I just wanna stop the podcast. We cannot say the word Sweet Romance in a sex scene. Sweet Romance as a friend of mine once told me, does not include sex scenes and often goes fade to black and is very pure and wholesome. So I'd like to correct my friend who's saying, sweet could be four peppers. No, it cannot be.

Don't for that. That was awesome. Keep that in there.

Pot calling the kettle, what? She's not. Okay. So Kimberly's talking about me, I'm the friend. Because back when I started writing, people would say Sweet Romance, that that was a key to tell you that there wouldn't be any sex scenes in the book. And that ain't true with mine. My characters may be sweet. Or turn out to be sweet, but let me tell you, they're having sex. I've said that before and I will say it again.

Okay, well, I would agree that my book that received a three in one of my newsletter subscriber’s descriptions was the Darkness Series, which I would not call those sweet at all. But they fall under the three categories. So I think because they're more adventure based and of course Billionaires was unanimously a five pepper. So even though, you know, there are some, in my opinion, sweet scenes in there between the characters who fall in love, uh, definitely would not qualify as a sweet story.

Okay, so let's talk about that fifth pepper. Most of the, emails that I got said if you're gonna get five peppers, it usually has to do with BDSM. There has to be some kind of reference or some kind of BDSM in it that'll get you five peppers.

Hmm. Well? 

What did y'all see in your responses?

I've seen that. Yeah. Also, besides BDSM things, I guess it is sort of BDSM, visiting a sex club, people watching you or other people participating besides the couple, and a place that involves risk of discovery.

Hmm. Hmm. 

Yes. Jules sent me the best email on that. Let me get to that for y'all. Toys are definitely a fifth pepper. Most people say, I did get some, um, four peppers if toys were involved, probably sex in public in a bathroom or a car, a pool, in an ex's bedroom during a party, parking at night, a mile high club or behind a building. Yeah, those are places.

Can we just talk about sex in a pool for a minute?

Okay.

I'm sorry, that sounds fantastic in a book, looks fantastic in a movie and no...

You did not have a good experience, Kimberly? 

It not what it looks like.

No, things are wet, but not the right wet.

Right?

Am I right?

Yes. And I'm gonna leave you with something that Wanda Sykes said about, hot tubs. She said, I don't wanna go in that bowl of dick soup.

Yeah. 

Sorry, y'all but now it's in your mind too.

Another place that is so romantic and seems like it'd be the best place in the world to have sex. And in the movies it looks great, is on the beach.

You do not want sand in those places. No thank you. 

I gotta, I gotta agree with that too. But then if we're gonna be talking about places, I've got to add that in the movies and in a book, yes, it can sound romantic in the shower.

Mm-hmm. 

I love sex in the shower. What? 

Yeah, but it's so hard to write sometimes for me, sex in the shower.

Huh. Well, um hmm. I could point out some, I could point out some scenes in my books that might help with that.

Oh, I've done it. Don't get me wrong. I've done it and I've written it so.

I think personally sex in the kitchen is hot. You know, the girl is like cooking and someone comes up behind her and you know...

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. And now is that a five peppers, sex in the kitchen? 

I would think so. Depending on...

That will be, coming up in book four of the Wishing Star series, nice. Not the book that came out this time. 

Sex in the in the kitchen? 

Sex in the kitchen. 

Yeah. Sex in the kitchen is hot. I've used that a couple times and it is great. You get 'em on the counter, and you get them on their knees... 

Yep. There you go. 

And wham, bam. Yeah. Mm-hmm. But... 

Time, for dinner.

Another place...

Wham, bam. See, that is not sweet.

I just say my books are.

Wham bam. Where's the emotion, KC?

We've already discussed that. 

There's emotion, it's called oooh, ahhh. 

That's why you wham bam. That's why you can't, that's why can't do four pepper emotional sex. 

The wham. The wham bam. Thank you, ma'am. You haven't heard that before? Okay. 

Of course, I do. Just calling you out. Well, how about this one? Well, I'd hit that.

I tap that. I tap that Yeah.

I’d hit that.

Oh no. Oh no. Oh.

Okay. Okay. 

We're not gonna go down that path.

But another place that, is a little tricky, can be very hot, but is very difficult in real life. Is in the car.

Yes.

Sometimes in the car if you're not good at yoga, it's a little harder than you might think.

Also in the restroom of a restaurant, in America, we have the worst you can see through anyway, so it's sort of voyeurism and there's no room and things go up your butt and whatever. It's a risk people.

Uh, well, let's see. Where are some interesting places that we've, had our characters go though? Let's see. 

Well, I've em do all these things. All the things we just said are hard and we would never do. All my characters have done it. 

I know. 

Another one I got was actually really good. It said it can be a five-star based on the actual word exchanges, the subtle gestures and the power play. Hmm. So, I would have to put that more in the Jamey Moody category, although the power play does fall under some of my, my billionaires. 

I think when you see that power, or maybe it's a power shift or something like that. Yeah, I think a, that’s a five peppers. 

Yeah. 

What about a sex toy? I mean, I don't think a sex toy automatically means it's a five star. You could have a sex toy in 2, 3, 4, whatever. Depending on what it is.

Most of my readers said a toy could be in four peppers. A toy could be involved. 

Okay. 

But then you get up to five is the BDSM.

Well, it depends on the sex toy. I mean, Kimberly kind of mentioned that, but if we got a little tickler going on, that's probably not super five. You throw that strap on in the scenario, get the harness action, and you're up in your heat level real quick.

Mm-hmm.

Cheryl, sent me the cutest email. She says, I love my books filled with peppers, one to five. I love them all. It depends on my mood. Sappy or steamy being an OWL butch, I love me some toys.

Owl Butch.

But she's a sapphic OWL butch, so single pepper makes me just as happy. And she put, I had asked this question to my newsletter. If, you need the sex scenes to be appropriate to the story. And so she had mentioned that too though, so I love that, our sapphic OWL butch who wooty woos.

Yeah. And she also said an email to me that five peppers means the juices are going to be flowing. Ooh, la la 

I'm on for a brag. I'm on for a brag. I sent her an ARC copy of Route 69, Texas, and it got five and a half peppers. 

Ah, well, yeah. Now how many sex scenes did you tell us that was in that? 

14. 14 out of 23 chapters. So.

Ooh Every other chapter.

They're inside. They're outside. They're upside, they're downside.

Do they do it on the motorcycle?

Of course.

We left that out. 

Yeah, we left that out. That was a place too.

Yeah. Out in public, on the motorcycle would be a 

Nice. 

pepper scene. And it is. 

Yeah. And difficult, maybe not that difficult. 

They're not moving. They're not driving. They're stopped.

No, be the cops would definitely pull them over.

Breaking helmet laws, I'm pretty sure.

I did appreciate several of my readers, said that, I feel the same way sometimes you want spice so you look on, your, TBR list, you know, for some that have five peppers and sometimes you don't. So you look for those with less peppers. I appreciated that too because that's kind of the way I read too. Sometimes you want a lot and sometimes you don't.

And some of them, Jackie, she said that in some of the sex scenes, she feels like if just a toy is used and they're stuck in a bedroom or the couch, that might be a two. But then if you get to where you're no longer restricted to the living room and the couch, you're somewhere else, then you start getting up there. Like if you go outdoors, like we're just saying. 

Mm-hmm. Interesting. I don't think I have my characters having sex in the living room in Route 69. They're everywhere else but not there.

It's too sweet.

Yes, too sweet. Yeah. Bathtub scene is kinda sweet, but yeah, we can't use sweet according to Kimberly, so it's not. 

No. Well, that's because of Jamey.

Oh, okay. 

Y'all don't constantly throwing me under the food truck elsewhere. 

Uh uh. You told me not to use sweet, is what I'm saying. 

She's right. I did.

That's what I'm saying. You told me not to use Sweet. So that is not allowed.

But then Jules went and called me the Queen of Sweet.

Yeah. So now you're in trouble Jules.

You're not in trouble, Jules, because I'm coming around to that. 

Oh, I get in trouble.

Yeah, you do. I'm coming around to it because I mean, it keeps being thrown out there. And I'll say that in my books. I'll say, I'll let my MCs even say that. That is so sappy. And they're like, I know, but I love it.

Mm. 

See that? Got it all outta y'all.

There we go.

Wham, bam, aweee.

Yeah, we're gonna change it to, wham bam aweeee.

All right, so I got one more that I think you might have all received as well. And that said, maybe, there should be a scale that uses hearts or teddy bears instead of peppers or with peppers so that you have the idea of what is spicy and what is lovey dovey slash warm fuzzy levels. And I thought that was perfect.

I'm pretty sure we all know who the teddy bears are in this trio, but.

Okay, well, let me just point out that sometimes my characters have the wham bam, thank you, ma'am. Because they're not feeling all teddy-beary sometimes, sometimes you want that hot, intense stuff. Right. Okay. There you go.

So let me ask you a question. Let's say one of the characters goes to a BDSM club and they do things there, but it's not sexual, is that considered five peppers just because they went to a BDSM club?

Do you mean the book or the scene?

I mean a character in the book, went to a BDSM club, but didn't have any sex.

Hmm. And do anything really risque.

I am learning a lot about BDSM 'cause I'm working on a project with another author and they're writing the BDSM scenes and we have decided there wouldn't be any sex in the BDSM dungeon, but it's a five-pepper scene. There's a lot going on with how the person's dressed and how turned on they are. And I would have to say that's gonna be rare that it's not.

Wouldn't that have, emotion coming into it then?

Uh, not having experienced that myself...

Because you're getting hot. Because you're getting hot just looking at these people's clothing or lack of.

I may or may not be writing a scene and I was just curious.

Yeah.

If it's five pepper or not, because then I have to do something different.

It would be five-pepper, depending on the scenes dynamics for sure.

Oh, okay. 

Yeah. That would definitely set the scene, wouldn't it?

Mm-hmm.

Hmm hmm. But I guess really though, the question would be can you hit five peppers without BDSM? There you go. I'll put it to y'all.

Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah. 

Yeah, absolutely. 

Okay, good. The, sweet one in the group. Thanks you for that. So.

I think even if you just had one major sex scene, if it was buildup of emotion for a long period of time and then the sex scene's really, really hot. It could be five peppers. It doesn't have to be a zillion sex scenes. 

Right? I had a reader say that you could just have one scene in there and it could end up being hot depending on what's happened, in the story. 

I think, we seem to go right to five, but it seems like a lot of people say if it's fade to black, that's zero. If it's one, it might be handholding and kissing, and then some say two, maybe one sex scene, I guess in the bedroom. Consensual. All these are consensual, obviously, that we're talking about. Mm-hmm.

Fade to black is not necessarily a zero. I would not a hundred percent agree that that would be a zero because the lead up to that fade to black might push it into a one. 

Yeah. 

I'm just telling you what I read here, so... 

Oh, well, not blaming you, Kimberly. I'm sure it's not what you... 

Don't blame me about the zero pepper, I know Jack shit about zero peppers.

Most of my readers, like three and four. And, coincidentally that's what this sweet romance writer writes three and four.

Unbelievable.

Wham, bam, wham, bam.

Her sweet emotional...

That is unbelievable, Moody. 

Wham, bam. Wootie, Woo?

Here's the other question. Do peppers matter and do they matter as much as stars? Because you know, we're all after that five-star review.

Stars are more important, I think.

Yeah, I think so too. But I wonder, you know, for readers, I think they look at stars probably first and then they look at the peppers.

Yeah. Quality. Quality over sex, quantity for sure.

Yeah. Yep. 

I think so too. and that's what they're looking for. So then the peppers matter the most, don't it's erotica. 

Well, that would be true.

True. 

Yeah. But let me say that erotica can also be five stars because there's a story with it. Because most of my folks said that too, that with their erotica, they like there to be a story. You got any story in that Route 66, Texas.

Oh, it's 69. 

Oh, sorry. 

Maybe, you need a little more instruction on what 69 66 looks like, which reminds me of a joke. 68. What is 68? 

Oh my god. 

I'll do you now… You can eight me later. Okay. Anyway, so.

Oh, 

I know it's, 

Oh. 

Let's think about this for a second. Who out there would wanna read a one star five pepper erotica novel? Not me.

No, that's true.

That would be bad. 

Some people do. I mean, yeah, but some people do.

Oh, not anybody I wanna know. 

Well, I'm just saying. Hey, let me ask you this, KC, how did you, come up with Texas on this route 69?

Because actually Route 69 is a real route. It is a real highway. It starts in Port Arthur, Texas.

Yes. I mean, I know of Highway 69 around here, but, that's just interesting. I just wondered if you know, you were...

It's a multi-state. 

What if you were giving your friend a shout out, you know.

Oh, Oh, that's, oh, sorry. Let me back up. Uh, leave this in Kimberly. Leave it in. But, it was, because, you know, I was really thinking about Jamey and I thought, you know, maybe I'll set this in Texas.

Yeah. 

So what I wanna know is...

I'll call it 69...

Yeah,

Where are they going next? 'cause I figure you're going to continue this since she's... 

Yes. Oklahoma.

Oh, Oklahoma...

Yeah.

Where the, where the wind. I can't remember it. 

Yeah. Yeah. It's five states, goes through five states, Texas, Oklahoma, all the way up to Minnesota.

Oh, cool. Okay, let's ride along. Let's hum along on that, Harley.

Okay. Well, I think that wraps up our sex episode number two. Hope you all are very clear about what your five pepper is...

I don't know about y'all, but man, are you tired now?

Need a cigarette.

Oh, yeah.

A shot of gin would do well.

Let go have a smoke.

Next week we're gonna be talking about promotion sites like I Heart SapphFic and KC, do we have a question of the week?

Yeah. There are a lot of promotion sites. I Heart SapphFic being a main one for our niche. But, are there sites that you subscribe to? So I would love to hear if, you do like BookBub or some of the others, 'cause if there's something unique that you subscribe to, I'm gonna wanna know about it so I can send stuff to it. So.

Oh, well that's it for this week. Thanks for listening.

Thanks for listening. Woo. I'll talk to you later.

 Okay. Wham, bam hooty hoooo. 

Thanks for listening. If you'd like to reach out to us, you can contact us by email at contact@threelesbiansandapen.com with the number three spelled out or on Instagram, Facebook and X at three lesbians and a pen using the number three. And finally, on our website at threelesbiansandapen.com, we look forward to hearing from you, see you next week.