Hi, everyone. We're glad you're here. This is the Three Lesbians and a Pen podcast. Get ready to have your world rocked. As we dive into the wild and sometimes wacky world of self-publishing. We are three fabulous bestselling authors. I'm your host, Kimberly Todd with my best friends.

K. C. Luck

and Jamey Moody. 

Join us as we discuss the joys of writing, challenges of self-publishing, and anything else that tickles our fancy. 

Hey there, and welcome to Episode 32 of the three Lesbians and a Pen Podcast. I'm Kimberly Todd, and I'm here with my fabulous friends, KC Luck and Jamey Moody. Today we're talking about the Biggest Challenges for Indie Authors Right Now, but before we start, what's happening with everyone? KC?  

Well, this last week was my full week of real retirement, being a full-time author, not having to go to the day job, and lemme tell you. It was amazing,

Yay.

I know that's right.

I keep getting asked, you know, how I feel about it, and my answer has always been, this is so awesome that I wish I had done it sooner. So I wish that I had been brave enough to become a full-time author sooner, and if, anyone's listening and on the fence about it. Go for it. Pull the trigger, jump off, whatever you wanna call it, because you'll find so much freedom in it that you can do a lot more writing, which I have been doing. So I've been working in the but I've also been doing a lot of writing, and that's the goal because I wanna sell books. So, welcome to authorpreneurship. 

That's great, man. Good for you. I didn't really do much this week. What I wanna talk about is, we're recording this on April the 14th, five years ago today I published my first book.

Ooh, Yay. 

I know, man, I, kind of thought about it yesterday and I was like, man, that's cool. I always pick, dates to release my books that have some kind of meaning.

And I remember trying to decide when I was gonna publish the book and I used four and 14 because those are the birthdays of my niece and my nephew. And here we are, it'll be 25 books later, I think, in May when I released my next book. And it's just been such a joy, the whole thing. I mean, yes, there are problems here and there, but it's just been such a joy and I call it an adventure, a writing adventure. 

So, you listeners out there, if you wanna give me any suggestions on how to celebrate five years, hit us up on email, text. Any comments? Yeah, tell me how to celebrate Five years.

Yeah, we can all do shots. So, on the next recording…

Okay.

Breakfast shots. I'll have to make mimosas.

That's right.

Okay, yeah, we'll have shots. Okay. Kimberly, how was your week?

Oh, it was okay. I had a lot of family stuff going on, so I didn't get much writing done, but what I did do is when I had some time, I focused on gathering keywords for ads, which is not always my favorite thing to do, but I felt like I was at least accomplishing something in my writing life by doing that. Even though I couldn't get words done, at least I did that. So...

That's funny. I worked on keywords too.

Yeah, see, they help.

I sure did. That's, wild.

Did we have any texts this week? 

Yes. We had three texts actually, we heard from CeeJay who her, answer to the question of how she would help indie authors was turn all the scammers to dust. So...

hmm.

Apparently, she sees a lot of it and she likes to block those people. And Cheryl wrote and she said she would want to increase sales somehow. We love that and she's so glad that we stuck with it. Even though maybe in the beginning it wasn't, as many sales as we might like. So, we appreciate all the people who buy our books. And yes, increasing sales would be a great bump. Jules actually texted this time, she would just fix indie publishing in general, although it may be easier to come up with world peace, so…

I think she's right there.

Jules, that could be true.

And how about the emails?

Cheryl also emailed and she, and I thought this was kind of interesting. She wished to change how our books are perceived. She said when she was growing up, all she could read were straight romance. 'cause that's all that was offered. And of course, now have sapphic out there, but she just wishes and I kind of understand what she's saying here. Romance is romance. Everybody read all of it, you know, type thing. It shouldn't have to be, shouldn't have to be divisions between them.

Yeah, you watch movies that way, so why not read your books that way, right?

I get it. It just seems like we have to work so hard to get any kind of movies or books out with people like us. Why does it have to be that hard? You know? So. Yep. Cheryl, you're right. We feel you.

And where the lesbian character doesn't die.

Yeah. 

Yeah, or go to jail. 

For sure. 

Because even if you like the lesbian character, she's gonna die in the movie.

Yeah.

They're getting a little bit better about it, but…

They are. I'm just teasing. 

Yeah. Okay, so this week we're talking about the biggest challenges for an indie author right now. KC, you wanna start us off?

Sure. I thought about this a lot, and I think the biggest challenge right now for me is just visibility. When you see the newsletter that comes out from I Heart SapphFic they're talking about, all their new releases. There are so many new authors and the authors that already exist are putting out so much content that it makes it really hard because there's only so many readers and there's only so much time in a day to read books. I know some of these people read like 300 books a year, and that's amazing. But still, they have to be selective and there's only so much a piece of pie you can have. So yeah, visibility is my number one.

Exactly. And honestly, I think that's where KU comes in, Kindle Unlimited, because these people that are reading those 300 books and everything, I think it's an advantage to be in, Kindle Unlimited because that's just the place to be, if you wanna get more eyes on your books. Because I really think, a lot of sapphic readers they use KU. But you're right. There are so many new authors and I think that's great because they're getting the word out that sapphic is here. But you're right, it's hard for us to, stand out. So let me just quickly say thank you to my readers who are still with me. We love you and want you to keep reading.

Yeah, and I had the same thing. Sales, basically. How do you, increase or maintain sales during this crazy market fluctuation that's happening? I mean, it can make you, one day you can feel like your whole life is in the toilet, and then the next day you can feel like, oh, people are reading my books and they still want me to write. Oh, okay. I don't suck.

Yeah.

Yeah. 

I tell you, it has changed my expectations because I think things may have calmed down as far as the Amazon boycott, as they like to call it or whatever, but my sales have not picked up and I just have to realize that this may be the way it's gonna be. And so, you do what you can with what you've got, because I don't wanna stop writing.

No.

I love doing this. I just talked about, you know, I've done it for five years and I wanna keep doing it. So yeah, you have to find. Other ways, I guess, but, I'm appreciative for what I have.

Yeah, definitely sales are down. There's just no other way to put it and that is something that, you know, is concerning. It definitely is a challenge, especially now that I've retired and I'm writing full time, is that I am expecting a certain amount of income to come from my writing, and before I retired, I did lower the number and make sure I tested I could still survive with that lower number. But yeah, the daily reads are down. But I do have other, avenues of income and like I have started a YouTube channel and things like that, which I'll hopefully monetize. So, there are ways to bring in money, but it's not gonna be just books.

Yeah, which you want it to be. You wish it could be... every author's dream is that they live off their sales of their books and they just keep creating. So the reality is you might have to do in this market some other things to bring in additional funds.

I will say this, I'm not gonna stop giving books away because I love giving books away. I do that occasionally. And, just this week, one of my books is offered in the I Heart SapphFic Reading Challenge. I think it's for MCs over 40. So, if you're in that group, go to the Facebook group and give me a comment and I'll probably gonna give you a book because I love doing that. But. yeah, like you said, sales are down.

And, unfortunately it means we might have to increase some of the prices of our books, and that's what's really, really hard for me. ' Cause I know a lot of people are on a budget, if they don't have KU and they do wanna buy the ebook copies, I don't wanna make it so that it's really a struggle for them. So, I'm trying to keep the price down. My most recent book, although it's short, is only $2.99, you know, so... I went back and forth on what price point on that for the, or the length of the book. So, yeah, that's definitely part of the problem. 

One thing I think is challenging for indie publishers or indie writers is the stigma behind, indie books aren't as good as books from a traditional publisher, and that's just not true. Reading is subjective. KC and Kimberly may read a book that I don't particularly care for, but that doesn't mean the book is bad. 

Right. 

And for some reason, indie books get this bad rep that they're not very good books. And I just know from personal experience it's not true.

Yes, definitely that stigma is out there. It's actually way better than it used to be. ' cause I remember when I first started seven years ago and I would tell friends and people on Facebook and stuff that I was self-published and then they would not wanna talk to me anymore. they would be like, oh, you're not a good enough author, not a good enough writer. So, if a publisher doesn't want you, why would I wanna read your book? So, it's gotten way better because there's so many indie published books now. So, and the quality is there that maybe wasn't there seven years ago. but yeah, that's definitely an issue.

I think it's still out there to some extent. And it came about because maybe the books weren't as edited as well, or proofread as well, but they are now, I'll put it that way. And so it's just kind of sad. At least my books have always been that way. And your books and Kimberly's. We, take pride in what we publish and we wanna put the best product out there. And unfortunately, Indies get that stigma that it's not as good. 

So one thing that I had as a challenge for an indie author right now is there are so many with TikTok and Instagram and Facebook, all of them. When you're trying to make money and you're worried about your sales, it's really hard to figure out where you need to be.

So I think on social media, you can spread yourself really thin because it's like whack-a-mole. You think, oh, I need to be on Instagram. Oh, no. Now I need to do TikTok. Everyone's saying that TikTok, you have to go there to do BookTok to get, picked up by people and readers to see you.

And I think it's, at least for me, as you can tell, it's kind of like a chaotic system. You don't know which one to focus on. And I know they say pick one that you enjoy and focus on that. But then you panic and you're like, where are the readers? Facebook skews to a little older, and TikTok is a little younger and Instagram is kind of like thirties, I guess. I don't know, but I'm just saying it's really hard to know where to be. And I think that's a challenge because you're trying to write a book, but you're also knowing while you're writing that you need to be on social media somewhere.

Right.

I agree. One thing that I have found is that there are several, influencers on Instagram that, love Sapphic books and they're also on TikTok. So if you can get them to, like your book, they can put it on other platforms that you don't feel comfortable with, so at least your book is getting there. 

Well, that's a good idea. 

I've seen that happen, a few times for me on some of these, influencers that are on Instagram and I love it and I appreciate it cause they take all sapphic books and it's been really nice. There's some that are really great.

Yeah, Laurie Prince is really good, even though it's audiobook. She's really good about talking about the authors that she's working with, and so she's a very good influencer. 

Tacie Cherry too. She does, Sterling Sapphic Reads. She and her wife are so funny on there. They do the cutest little videos, but they put 'em on TikTok also. And they take a wide variety of books. So, your name is still getting out there. 

Another area that concerns me as a indie author, I think all authors should be concerned about it, is AI. Those, language learning models that are coming up with books relatively easily now, even though they are poor quality. Those are a little disconcerting because people are throwing them up there. They are competition. 

And they’re diluting the market.With crappy copies.

Mm-hmm. 

Yeah. Here's one thing that I wish, could happen. We use Amazon and Kindle Unlimited. I wish there was a way for indie authors to go wide that was more profitable for them. Like, could some of the other, retailers, give us a better, deal, for lack of a better word, on, our eBooks. So we would be enticed to not go in KU or have, something like KU in other, ways to, distribute our books. Amazon doesn't have to be the only KU. Is there somebody else out there that would like to try it, for example? 

Yeah. And with Amazon, wouldn't it be nice if it didn't, make you locked in? You could do KU and also go wide, so we could all ask all our listeners to send an email to Amazon.  

Well, I don't know, is it Apple and Kobo and all of those that we want to do some kind of KU type deal, I guess. But I understand them wanting to keep it exclusive. But it would be nice if there were other outlets because let's face it, we're trying to get our books in front of as many readers as possible, and we want them to have a good experience and get it the best way and for the best price for them too.

Yeah.

Yeah. It's not all about us making money, it's about everybody winning here, I guess is the way to put it.

Exactly.

One other thing that I had as far as challenges people have probably seen this, I don't know if readers know so much about it, but, a lot of the indie books have been hijacked and uploaded to numerous pirated sites and at first, you're like, whatever, I can only do a takedown notice. And then eventually you realize that you can't do anything because they're everywhere. They just pop up, once you have it taken down somewhere it gets put up on another site. And, I think it's hard as a writer if you spend, like for me, a lot of times I spend a year or a little under a year writing my book, getting it all together, and then to have someone just take it as soon as it gets published and put up on a free site. That just is very discouraging and I wish that there was a way that we could stop that. 

It is not just discouraging, it's disheartening.

Yeah, definitely. That's cropping up more and more and it is a big issue.

Mm-hmm.

And what do you do about it? I mean, there's just so many of them how do you combat that? I don't know.

And I think there's a perception out there that people think, oh, well the writers are so rich, my sale won't matter. But they don't realize how little authors make even on a hard copy. 

Right, exactly. And then there's also those books that are getting, translated into other languages by people using bots and AI. So, your book, even if you wanted to put it in a French market or whatever, is just really gonna be difficult because it's gonna be ripped off. It's gonna be out there already under somebody else's name. 

Mm-hmm. And audio books are even worse. We get even less on audio books.

So, I think we really appreciate the honest people that are out there that do love us and wanna go buy our books because they wanna support us, but also want us to keep writing. Because that's one thing I've seen a couple of authors that have already thrown in the towel because the whole, hijacking thing has just made them so discouraged that they don't even wanna write anymore. 'cause they can't live.

Yeah, it's true. And do they do that for books from publishers as well as indie authors.

Mm-hmm. 

Yeah. that's what I thought. Just.. 

Like Dean Koontz and Stephen King. Big titles like that.

But I think it's easier for them to, be able to afford that.

Yeah. 

Or they have an army to help them. Right.

Exactly. They have better lawyers.

Well, and one thing I wanna say though is I'm not trying to make a million bucks here, folks. I love writing these books And so I don't want us to sound like we're whining and complaining, because of the way indie publishers, books are treated. I just, wanna make enough so that we can keep doing it because we enjoy it and we want to, bring joy to others. 

Definitely. 

Yeah. Exactly. 

Another thing that I think is an issue for indie authors right now is the fact that Amazon keeps changing the rules. They keep changing the algorithm, they keep changing stuff that, impacts your books.

They recently put it so that your pre-order book can have that look inside, feature. That's new. It just happened and they don't really tell you ahead of time. They just do what they want. So the, algorithm always changes. But thank God for Amazon. I know a lot of people are mad at Amazon right now, but they do pay the bill for me, so, yeah, just to be on a little more positive note.

Yeah, they pay the bill for all of us, I think. So thank you, Amazon.

Thank you, Amazon. We appreciate your platform to push our books out into the world. 

We do because, how else could we do this? That's true. So, we do love Amazon for their self-publishing, opportunities. 

Next week we're gonna be talking about other ways to keep readers engaged. Do we have a question of the week?

We do. So if your favorite author could create anything besides books, what would you want? Feel free to be creative because as I say... 

Careful, careful, careful... 

I say every week, I will definitely steal that idea. So please tell me what else I can do to sell Things other than books.

Oh gosh. Okay, well on that note, that's it for this week. Take care.

Thank you everybody.

Thanks. And don't forget to tell me how am I supposed to celebrate five years. We thank y'all for listening. Bye. 

Thanks for listening. If you'd like to reach out to us, you can contact us by email at contact@threelesbiansandapen.com with the number three spelled out or on Instagram, Facebook and X at Three Lesbians and a Pen using the number three. And finally on our website, at threelesbiansandapen.com, we look forward to hearing from you, see you next week.